Following a recent TPSU program at Bellevue College, Larry Shoemaker, Principal at Hunnex & Shoemaker, spoke with TPSU Founder and CEO Fred Barstein to discuss the role independent third-party administrators (TPAs) play in helping retirement plans succeed.
One of the key topics was the difference between bundled and unbundled plan administration. In a bundled arrangement, the recordkeeper handles most administrative services. In an unbundled arrangement, an independent TPA works alongside the recordkeeper, providing plan design support, compliance expertise, and ongoing guidance to plan sponsors.
According to Shoemaker, that added support can be especially valuable for smaller employers that may not have retirement plan experts on staff. As plans grow, the value often shifts toward consulting, fiduciary support, and helping employers navigate more complex challenges.
Beyond administration, Shoemaker emphasized the importance of having an independent perspective.
“We’re another set of eyes,” he said. “Because we work with so many plans and providers, we can help plan sponsors make informed decisions and ensure they’re getting the service and support they deserve.”
Read the Full Transcript Here:
Fred Barstein:
Greetings. This is Fred Barstein, CEO and Founder of TPSU and 401kTV. We just completed a program here at Bellevue College in the Seattle area, and I am here with Larry Shoemaker, Principal at Hunnex & Shoemaker, a TPA located in the Northwest. Welcome, Larry.
Larry:
Thank you, Fred.
Fred Barstein:
Do you mind if we ask you a few questions?
Larry:
Of course.
Fred Barstein:
Very good. Before we get started, tell us a little bit about yourself and your firm.
Larry:
Perfect. I’m Larry Shoemaker with Hunnex & Shoemaker here in Seattle, as you mentioned. We’ve been around since 1978, and I started with the firm in 1991. We currently administer about 1,400 retirement plans throughout the country, primarily in the Pacific Northwest and the Southwest. We’re excited to join you today.
Fred Barstein:
Very good. So that’s 1,400 plans as of April 2026, and I’m sure it’s growing rapidly.
One of the things we discussed during the break was that many plans are either bundled or unbundled. In other words, some plans use a third-party administrator while others use services handled directly by the recordkeeper. What value do you see in a plan utilizing an independent TPA? And at what point does it make sense for a plan to move away from a bundled arrangement?
Larry:
It’s really a case-by-case basis. Where we feel we provide value, particularly on the smaller-plan side, is through plan design consulting and helping employers navigate payroll and HR-related challenges.
Many small businesses don’t have a payroll expert or HR specialist dedicated to retirement plans. We can serve as that resource and help make sure the plan is operating properly while maximizing benefits for both the owners and employees.
As plans become larger, our value shifts more toward service and expertise. You can’t really design a 500-person or 1,000-person plan around the owners in the same way you can with a smaller company. Instead, we focus on providing a higher level of service, including fiduciary support, assistance with loans and distributions, and consulting around more complex issues.
We also have an in-house ERISA attorney, which allows us to help clients navigate mergers, acquisitions, and other complicated situations that arise.
Fred Barstein:
And for smaller plans, it can be harder to receive that level of customization and personal service directly from a recordkeeper.
Larry:
Absolutely. In many ways, smaller plans are actually more complex. Their demographics can change rapidly.
For example, in a 20-person company, bringing in one highly compensated employee can significantly alter the plan’s testing results or profit-sharing opportunities. We can be much more proactive and consultative in helping employers manage those changes.
The other point I’d make regarding bundled versus unbundled arrangements is that we’re an independent set of eyes. We work with hundreds of plans across multiple recordkeepers.
Sometimes a recordkeeper may offer the easiest answer or the answer that’s best aligned with their own processes. Because we work across the industry, we can provide a broader perspective and help hold service providers accountable.
It’s similar to having an independent insurance agent. You have another professional advocating for your interests.
Fred Barstein:
Final question. Was this your first TPSU program?
Larry:
Actually, this was my second. Rich and I participated with you years ago.
Fred Barstein:
I think it was actually about 13 years ago.
Larry:
That’s right. And I really enjoyed today’s program. The plan sponsors who attended were highly engaged, representing organizations ranging from small employers with around ten employees to organizations with thousands—and even hundreds of thousands—of participants.
I appreciated the diversity of attendees, from nonprofit organizations to for-profit companies. It made for a very engaging day and a great experience overall.
Fred Barstein:
What do you think is the value of a plan sponsor attending a program like TPSU?
Larry:
After speaking with several attendees afterward, I think one of the biggest benefits is simply hearing ideas and perspectives they may not have considered recently.
The breakout sessions were especially valuable because they allowed plan sponsors to learn from one another and focus specifically on retirement plans.
At many HR conferences, retirement plan discussions can get overshadowed by healthcare and other benefits-related topics. TPSU gives fiduciaries the opportunity to spend a dedicated day focused on their retirement plan, learning from experts and peers facing similar challenges.
Fred Barstein:
Great. And thank you for bringing your ERISA attorney. It’s always beneficial to have both a TPA and an ERISA attorney represented on the panel. Thank you for sponsoring the program.
Larry:
Thank you.
Fred Barstein:
And thank you for watching 401kTV. Stay tuned.
